Official Sony PSone 5" TFT LCD Screen - AVin MiniJack

Ok, I aquired myself one of these babies (see the product list at au.playstation.com) for $180 as part of a combo psone/screen pack (add to that the fact that my bro is buying the psone console for $75). Now, basically, I want to use it in my car with my in-car mp3 computer (which I haven't built yet), using standard TVout (which is onboard on the VIA EPIA800 which I am planning to use with a 3rd party sound card).

A few questions for the more knowledgable out there -

- Power requirements - DSE have 7.5VDC compatible cigarette plug-multi DC connector packs for about $33ish or so (check dse.com.au), would this suffice for the screen? I also have 300w 12VDC-240VAC inverter and if required can use this with a power brick to produce the 7.5v (although this seems like an illogical step - 12vdc-240vac-7.5vdc) so would prefer the cigarette lighter approach.

- Turning on the display - the display says that it should switch on when it recieves a display signal - this could be a problem if the tvout requires the device to be on before it detects and uses it. Should the display be o.k. with the auto-signal-on or will I need to either force the display to turn on or force the tvout to automatically output thru the TV interface?

- Sony's AV Mini-Jack - looks like a 3.5mm audio plug although has 4 segments (Assumably gnd, signal video, signal audio left, signal audio right) now, i've checked DSE, Farnell and Jaycar but can't seem to find these type of connectors to make my own adaptor cable (I only need mini-av to video in, but R and L audio would be nice too if I can get it) There's the possibility of buying a mini-av to mini-av connector plug from sony (9.99) and chopping into that (the added bonus being that a mate wants to do similar with his which he got for $190), but I would be stuck not knowing what wire does what (i've googled the pins for ages and found nothing about it) - so seeing as I was going to modify the casing anyway (get rid of the moulded bottom peice and protrusions), I thought I may be better off to bypass the mini-av-in and just solder straight onto the PCB inside - again depending on whether I can figure out the GND/Signal pins for all things (vid, Ra, La). If any of you know of any guides to doing this with my display or using the Mini-AV cables and making normal av to mini-av adaptors for use with sony Camcorders etc, please let me know before I hack apart my display.

If this works, and by all means, it should - then I think it'll make a great little display - not only in my car, but with the in-car-pc OUT of the car, say outdoors on a nice day - I need to get out more lol... (hence the want to use the speakers on the monitor if easy/possible.)

P.S. - if we can't figure out the mini-in jack perhaps someone knows how to modify a sony PS AV connector (the flat ones that u usually hook into ur ps and then to standard av/tv - except i want to do the opposite - standard av/tv into a ps style connector - since my display has the male connector intended to plug into a psone console.

--SileNceR

p.p.s - i've posted this on numerous other forums so as to have more chance of getting constructive replies (not that I really expect many of those in these forums :D)

Ya don't mean one of these do ya? :)

EDIT: Logic leads me to believe that the top two banded areas are still L/R audio, and the extra banding near the base is where the video comes from. If you plug in a normal AV cord, you still get your two sound channels and the video simply grounds itself.

That's exactly what I mean - now just to find one in Australia...

(So far beefy and I only found one, and that was in the UK)

now that i've pulled apart the display casing tho it is looking as if just soldering my own connection up is an option to consider - there are plenty of big easily soldered contacts around the av jack :)

power should be sorted - the screen uses 6.3W @ 7.5VDC

http://www.jedinights.com/jkeb/psone/current.GIF

only .91A, which a $36 in-car 12v-to-variable-DC adaptor which can do 1.5A and 7.5V should be able to handle easily.

So exactly what order do the pins go you think?

from the tip, r,l,v,gnd? (I have no familiarity with audio connectors and which are signal/ground or left/right in a standard stereo cable)

Here's a shot of the start of dissembly... bent some plastic in this step unfortunately, but it was bent back easily afterwards - it's all dissembled now but unfortunately my camera has flat batteries - when I get that fixed i'll post more.

http://www.jedinights.com/jkeb/psone/20sm.jpg

EDIT: and considering my guess as to this forums responses - this has been the first forum with any replies to my topic at all (except one idiot at pheaton trying to semi-hijack my thread).... and it's been quite helpful.

Basically, the power is sorted now, I know the cables exist but not where to get one for the AV - or I can solder it myself - and I'm still left wondering wether the screen auto-on will work with the EPIA-800.

nah that would be right

from what i know with stereo jacks, A1/A2/V/GND would be the right order of those bands, beefy's explanation would be dead right, as this is how mono - stereo adapters work (stereo ones are A1/A2/GND, and Mono are A/GND). working out which is left or right isnt really that important because its reversable at the connector end, or on a PC u can reverse it too so it aint an issue..

as for power, u'd be dead on with what u had planned, such a low power consumption wont even be a burden on the cars electrical system at all (12-240ac drill cars a fair bit more)

but as for finding that 4-band connector i have nfi where u would get one and if farnell dont list it then it'd be hard to find anywhere lol

best to either splice a spare normal cable, or make your own jacks one stereo, jack one video...

finally the screen thing, not sure i understand that, but if u mean that when the screen receives video data it turns on then i would assume it wont be a problem as with my tv out on my PC it probes the video line on boot which afaik would trigger such a condition at the screen

is there a difference in the way the VIA system works with TV out? i know some used to not work during boot, and others do. that is where my only worry would be.. but even then i think u can set primary output to TV out for most cards, just a thought.

I've got 12-240v planned for the actual pc for the time being, seeing as I have a 300W inverter behind me :) But I figured I'd rather run the screen from a 12v adaptor, cos even then I can mod a cigarette lighter plug into the car-pc case for when the pc is out of the car and on terra-firma - the draw won't be enough for it to hurt running off a pc's 12v rail so it's all good (AFAIK)

The screen thing, yes I did mean that when the screen recieves data it turns on - which I also assumed same as you that it would be triggered by the video probe - but I was really wondering if anyone knew exactly as to wether auto-on+probe works correctly or not... we'll have to wait and see. I don't think the VIA tvout is different to normal but there may be something like a bios option to force tvout, i'll wait and see on that one - and let you know - I think i'll make this my working forum for the time being for this project, seeing as OCM is down.

Apparantly JB Hi-Fi sell the connectors i'm after for $3, but seeing as there isn't a local JB-HiFi here and the fact that I'd need to also buy an $8 3xrca-3xrca connector to make it do what I need, I think i'll just solder straight onto the sides of the connector - I'll have to have a bit more of a think about it. Another question for if I decide to go that route:

- Are the center pins of RCA plugs usually ground or signal?

a standard av connector for a project box would actually go pretty good with this idea I think so it may be the way to go... we'll see... If I can get someone to pick me up the cable from JB and send to me thru the mail for a fraction of nothing I will, which will save me from soldering onto and hence risking my componants.

I'll have to see if Paul Warren from Warcom.com.au is willing to go to JB and grab me one and send with my next order (my new digi-cam to take close-ups of this work, along with more Antec Trilight fans) - that would make it a lot easier, and i'm willing to pay the extra to get a pluggable connector as opposed to soldering onto the AV multi connector jack. (I'd have a photo of the outside of this jack if it weren't for the fact that a. my camera doesn't like close-ups, and b. my camera has flat batteries).

--SileNceR

P.S. If anyone's interested here is a list of URL's i've found handy so far -

http://www.blackboxoz.com.au
http://www.dse.com.au
http://www.jaycar.com.au
http://www.farnell.com

US distro of cables i'm after (in minimum of 50 eek)
http://www.amabilidade2002.com/video.htm

UK Distro (thanks beefy)
http://www.camcorder-hire.co.uk/uk2shop-12.htm

and this link shows a 3xRCA to 3xRCA female to female adaptor for the uninformed -
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3dec941305d016722740c0a87f9c0719/Product/View/P6568

In theory, you should be able to get replacement cables for the one I've got, so after work today I'll chat with a guy I know at Hardley Normal and take a look in their Panasonic catalog (I went last night but he had knocked off).

I actually emailed panasonic and sony about it but no response of yet so...

Like I said tho, JB-HiFi have them so other places are sure to have them as well...

EDIT:

the panasonic "on" catalog (spring 2002) doesn't list any cables....

let me know how u go with ur mate @ HN

There's this fancy gold plated cable sitting down on the shelf at HN.. looks kinda funky too. it's like a stereo 3.5mm lead, but it's got an extra band on it.. and it's got three cables coming out of it instead of two.. kinda like that picture up further.. and it had a price on it.. $14.93... :D

Hey Silencer, subscribing to your thread mate, as your right bit-tech seems to be lacking in results.

I'm curious about these babies as i'm yet to lay my hands on them but do own a ps1 so know the connectors etc that your on about.

You say that this runs on 7.5 volts, would there be anyway i could power this from the 12v rail of the pc and ramp it down to 7.5?

I remember looking into your board a while ago as i too was planning a incar mp3 player, my old thread is on bit somewhere but i'm pretty sure you can start that mobo with the tvout on, but dont hold me to it, i'll try and find my thread.

I'm planning on having this inside the side of my pc, the final finished project shall be pukka, its taken half a year so far to build due to funds and uni and just general hard to find stuff.

I was planning on using a small 5" screen, but seen that done before many times so decided the ps1 screen with built speakers would be the best route, as i need the sound, just the things are so hard to find in the UK so may have to settle with a 5" screen just the res is a bit naff.

Oh well, i've written an essay, good luck silencer, i'll keep a lookin cheers

-Matt

well runnin the screen off 7V is possible using the +5/+12 method, but i dont know what sort of tolerance the screen would have for the half volt.

but that is a possible idea, sounds like PUK is onto a good idea

O.K. I just contacted John Gatt from VIA about the EPIA 800, and the run down on it is good.

Q. Can the EPIA800 be forced to output to tvout even if no display is detected?
A. Yes, It's in the BIOS.

Q. Can the EPIA800 be forced to output PAL on it's TVOUT?
A. Yes, That is also in the BIOS.

The second question is relevant because it has come to my attention via the austech.info forums where I also posted this thread that the Sony PSone screens are set up to not allow playing of NTSC games (in Aust. anyway) by causing the picture to roll when recieving an NTSC signal - apparantly Sony did this deliberately... not that it matters - I can now force PAL TVout from the EPIA and the display will turn on and work straight off... *fingers crossed*

Puk: Thanks for taking the time to register and subscribe to the thread - The PSone TFT is only 5", although from what i've seen the image quality is quite reasonable - about the same as that of a tv - even while using the PSone cdplayer with visualisations on and 1px lines whirling around - no visual lag with the images either like is more noticeable with larger computer TFT's.

As per running it via 7V, it may be able to do it, my brother plugged the PSone into 4ish volts and all it could do was spin up the CD so hopefully tolerance of being .5 low isn't too bad - the official Sony In-Car adaptor for powering the PSone and Screen combo runs at about 8.9V or something similar according to au.playstation.com (and no doubt uk.playstation.com or similar)
Remembering that the wattage used at 7.5v is 6.8W, so hopefully it shouldn't create a very big load on an average computer - I'll try hooking it up to 7V tomorrow perhaps, if it works I won't have to worry about paying $36ish for the Adaptor/Converter.

The Speakers on the PSone screen are surprisingly decent for low volume sound with little bass - when I get my new digital camera I'll take a photo of them, they look like miniature 6"x9" speakers, like 1"x1.5" - and they even have a relatively large coil allowing for a fair bit of movement :)

An update on my process now looks like this:

-EPIA will support TVout and PAL without Display Selection
-Psone Screen will run off .91A+ - A DSE 7.5V @ 1500mA cigarette lighter adaptor should do the trick fine - will try running it from 7V trick tomorrow, just need someone to tell me which pin of the power connector is ground and which is positive - center pin ground is the normal is it not?
-Psone screen image quality seems to suffice for what I want to do
-Cables are available from Tandy/Harvey norman to do the AV-to-RCA
-3xRCA to 3xRCA cable's are available at... ack... $8 from DSE. If someone wants to get me a pinout for the Mini-AV jack I might consider just wiring up a mountable plate with the AV jacks on it... nah... but still, it'd be information worth knowing.
-PCB on PSone Screen is as round as the case is.. so my case for it will be rather large - considering using the original casing painted silver or black with the bottom speaker section cut off and replaced with a box for connectors and mounting purposes - Velcro mounting should work at this low weight... perhaps

Looks like it will do the work it needs to... just gotta do me some testing :)

If anyone can answer my pinout questions i'd be thankful, if not i'll just buy the adaptors... hell, i'll buy the adaptors anyway even if I can do this other ways I'm sure i'll find a way to use the adaptors elsewhere.

did you listen to sks and me at all re: the pinouts?

Yes, I listened, but as neither of you were really definate about the pinout, I'd rather make sure i'm right first go instead of busting my screen. As well as that, nowhere in either post does it say which pin is signal/gnd or a normal RCA cable... so..

Now I'm assuming from the tip of the connector its ground, vid, audio, audio as you and sks both said (I think), but i'd hate to have that backwards or something and find out that sony don't put diodes on their input sockets.

So yeah, the question still stands, if someone is totally sure (ie has tested with a multimeter) as to the pinouts, and can show me (hopefully with an annotated diagram of the mini-av jack (based on beefy's foto?)) then i'll be very greatful.


Edit:
Actually, in theory the center pin of an RCA connector would be signal yes? So it would be all outside pins connected together then one connected to the ground on the mini jack, then the signal form each to their prospective connectors.

Correct?

OK, maybe I didn't make it clear enough.

Starting from the base of the pin (where it's connected to the wire) is the ground. After the first banding, it's video, then audio x 2. So it's audio on the tip. R + L don't matter as you can simply swap cables around, but I'm pretty sure that the tip would be left channel.

Yes, it's the interior pins on the RCA points that have the signal. Outside is ground.

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a premade cable? :)

I don't exactly know how much "easier" $14.95 is, but I just realised I don't need the 3xrca to 3xrca adaptor so....\

Goin shopping for more gear today :)

Sounds like the project is going well mate, glad to hear it, sorry i didn't come up with the goods on forcing tv out, i was pretty sure it did but seems you got the info anyhow, nice one. Been out the loop again for a couple of days and shall prolly for a couple more, who'd have thought getting an education was so expensive in this poxy country! Argh.

I have so many ideas and no time nor money but its wicked to see your coming along with your plans silencer, looking forward to seeing the results!

Stay cool
-
Matt

Ok update time.

I went in to DSE and spent a small fortune... well, $85AUD

not all relevent to this project but perhaps to future ones,

$25 communic8 phone recharge (I needed it, so I thought, then won $15 from 3 vanilla cokes the next day)

1500mA (1.5A) 12v DC-DC 1.5 thru 12v output, including... 7.5v, middle pin polarity selectable - Center pin positive as per diagram on the ABS Plastic screen enclosure (now sans screen and PCB etc) (under $10 AUD, must have been on clearance seeing as there aint many left! if you want one there are still some left and the quality of them seems quite good, although i'm not sure but there may be a faint whine when powered on)

Breadboard for future projects

Needle file set (never know when you'll need needle files... lol... next is a dremel I guess)

2m RCA stereo audio lead - cost a wholesome $12... ouch

Assorted other bits, gotta get around to getting the gear to wire up my 16x2 char backlit LCD from oatleyelectronics.com.au (only $12 not bad at all)

Status Report so far:

-Tested dc-dc adaptor in car with screen using psone powered from extension lead, a-ok 100% working.

-Tried cutting up RCA lead and wiring to contacts (touching to, not soldering) no go unfortunately -using a tv and/or a dvd player as input - so it looks like i'm going to have to fork out the $15 for the HN cable - on top of the $12 for the now manged RCA lead.

If the proper cable doesn't work it looks like i'm going to have to use the sony psone cable to hook it up - a prospect I aint too fond of.

So current status, Power for screen = ok, signal to screen - not just yet.

Planned for sometime soon purchase/order of proper cable from HN, purchase of Kodak DX4330 camera for close up shots, purchase or dismantling of printer cable to wire up 16x2 backlit parellel LCD, purchase of mini-ITX mobo from warcom.com.au, purchase of 256mb of ram from warcom.com.au, purchase of 40gb wd hdd from warcom.com.au, pay car rego and insurance (Ack), working out how to get sound from computer into car stereo - thru amp circuit and switch or aux in to cd HU, from there on to an amp for new front/back speaks and sub in boot. Construction of case for car-boxen, purchase of $65 mini keyboard from scorptec.com.au, wiring of full system, placement of network jack.

I've got a lot ahead of me.

Will keep up status reports here.

dude i oughtta slap u for buying that av cable from dse

fark man it woulda been like $4 anywhere else!
what exactly were u testing when u mangled that cable, were u going for signal to power it on or just to get input into it?

I outta slap myself for buying the cable from dse, I had plenty here that would have done... I got into a buying frenzy... dagnammit!

I was trying to get signal to power it AND input.... tried signal ground on one side, then reversed, then tried it on the other pins too but nothing, so i'll go for the proper cable and if that doesn't work then i'm not going to be happy.

I've been doing some more digging and found a maybe alternative to using a ps1 screen for me due to costs, and have come up with this (http://www.merconnet.com/products.php?ProductID=103) not bad idea, interacting a few more options for me to fiddle with and a remote too, plus runs off the 12v.

There are several old threads at bit about the 5" screen, all coming out with the fact that they aren't too hot on desktop but i dont really want em for that, i'm after dvd playback and divx or mp3 is my ideas.

Phire's (http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15666) thread, Widevolt's (http://www.widefault.com/lcd/index.htm) i found from somewhere, i neglect to remmber, you may have seen these i guess but thought i'd bung em in.

Did a bit of mind mapping today, have decided how I am going to get the source audio into the car, via a Clarion EQS560 1/2DIN Equalizer

Mind Map Pic -

http://www.jedinights.com/jkeb/images/carguide.png

also testing so far has the following -

still no picture for the PSone screen, sat that aside for a bit
inverter works a+, but want to do the following

ACC line - inverter - ups - psu - mobo

with the ups software connected to the mobo so that when the power is off for 30 seconds or more the PC will shut down (acc line) (thanks for that method of doing the 15-30 second shutdown delay sKs)

this will mean that if the ACC line is off for more than 15 seconds, ie its off permanantly (well semi-so) the computer shuts down (with the ACC goes the screen and the sound, so not much purpose leaving it on after that. It also means tho, that when turning the car on (ACC-Ignition) the UPS kicks in and the computer stays going, the song/movie keeps playing and the screen and audio return momentarily.

Not to mention the UPS is only $150 :)

UPS i'm looking at is a Opti UPS 500VSII, anyone know anything about these msg here, will be doing more research on it regardless

If anyone has any links to reviews about the EQS560 (Clarion) point me there, google doesn't want to feed me much in that direction. (your own opinions if you have them, count too.)

Nice one Silencer, the UPS idea rocks, specially the whole ignition turning bit, clever, hadn't thought of that one, and allowing propper shut down. Sorry i can't help any on these matters, shall stay tuned though. Be getting my student loan in a week, then i can think more about the whole thing, illness puts life on hold at the moment, england in winter, hurrah!

Merry christmas and a happy new year btw :)

same to you re merry xmas and hapy new year, even if it is a little late for the first part ;)

Hopefully the UPS plan will work flawlessly, the only reason I could see a problem would be if the recharge function draws too many watts for the inverter - in which case it'll work fine without the inverter, but otherwise it's "uh-oh"

might wire a relay to the car's accessory line to connect power on momentarily when acc goes on... not sure how to do the momentary, any ideas? I mean i could do it to go on and stay on, but it HAS to be momentary or it will soft-off the machine (doh) - when the ignition/acc off/on happens it wont matter because the momentary nature will cause the machine to ignore the extra "on" clicks, same as a normal machine if u push power while its on (and have windows set to do nothing on power press)

that way it will turn on by itself, stay on, and shut down 30 seconds after losing power

http://www.jedinights.com/jkeb/images/roamer104.wmf
[edit - damn wmf image might be easier to see on white, here - http://www.jedinights.com/jkeb/images/roamer104.wmf ]

Here's version 1.4 of my RoamerStart Circuit.

Basically it works like such -

You replace the UPS switch with the contacts +upssw and -upssw (no particular order)

You do the same with the inverter and +invsw and -invsw

you replace the pc power on button with the contacts +pcosw and -pcosw

You feed 12v from a molex in the computer into +PC12v

you connect the car's ACC (ignition switched power source) to +ACC

you connect the car's grounding wire to GND (unmarked)

When ACC comes alive UPS is switched on, Delay begins for Inverter
when the delay (1-2 seconds) finishes the inverter is turned on and the PC is sent a momentary "click" and switched on.

When the pc is on the momentary action is blocked and the UPS is held in the "on" position, so if the car turns off the UPS stays on (shuts down the PC via software at a user defined delay)

if the car is turned back on, nothing changes except the inverter is delayed yet again - the momentary doesn't get sent again because of the 12v effecting the Normally Closed relay.

when the car has been off for more than [user defined time] then the pc is shut down, and upon loss of pc 12v (there is no 12v from acc) the UPS is switched off, avoiding the 5v standby that an ATX machine draws when "off", and the momentary lock is stopped, with the relay returning to closed, allowing the computer to be started by accessory again in the future.

If the car is switched on then off within the delay for the Inverter/Momentary then all that happens is the UPS turns on with the car then off, but doesn't draw any power from the car. (until the inverter kicks in). The pc could be put before the delay but that would mean two things, the UPS might not be fully on when the momentary is sent, causing the pc not to start, and the ups would continue to turn off with the car because the pc isnt on - and b, if the car went off-acc-off for a second due to someone checking say fuel levels, the pc would turn on and take at least 30seconds to turn the ups off again

The primary reason for the delay is to avoid the possibility of the inverter etc drawing power during vital times like car startup etc. more info as per what connects to what is coming soon.

I got my Clarion EQS560 on the 31st.

I've looked at the inverter i have and the switching shouldn't be a problem, same with pc, dunno about the ups tho as i dont have it yet. Still awaiting camera so can't really make that much more progress sorry.

Am thinking of controlling the UPS shutdown time from software just to make it a little more user friendly - ie if im going somewhere for 4 minutes and dont want it to shut down while im gone, set it to say 10 mins and then leave the car - the ups will handle it.

so now the machine
- starts with the car
- stays on for [user defined period] without ACC (up to an hour dependant on UPS battery life)
- turns itself off and resets all switches to original position
- integrates UPS and Inverter into car electronic subsystem.

now to build the circuit into a plexi case :D

Update:

I haven't been doing a lot of work on the system of late although thanks to beefy I found a cable for the screen and have tested it with a) my digital camera's video out, b) my sony DVD player, and c) my computer. Since I haven't got the EPIA yet I can't be sure if this will always be the case, but on PC the image doesn't fill the screen at any of the res'ns (640x480,800x600,1024x768).

For those interested, the cable retails for $30AUD @ scorptec -
http://www.scorptec.com.au/index.php?prdid=00003218.

I'll attach a photo so you can see what it looks like viewing the index of the morb forums at 640x480 - text is readable but only just, winamp doublesized isn't bad tho... hope the EPIA fills the whole screen.

If anyone wants any photos taken of the screen performing other activities just let me know and i'll take them.